Author Topic: More trail etiquette topics  (Read 13337 times)

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Offline Martin

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Re: More trail etiquette topics
« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2012, 12:47:42 PM »
I often yield to riders coming uphill, but just as often wonder if it shouldn't be the other way around.  Going downhill you are usually giving it some stick and it totally buggers up your run, versus crawling uphill anyway where it does not impact as much. 

but if you can't stop or slow down for those crawling up the hill, can you be said to be riding in control? (this does not go for one way trails)
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Offline Matt

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Re: More trail etiquette topics
« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2012, 01:04:27 PM »
Yeah, but to clarify, giving it some stick is different to not being in control.  I am talking more about impact on one's ride.  Everyone should be in control regardless of direction.

Offline Oliver

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Re: More trail etiquette topics
« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2012, 05:52:13 PM »
Agree Matt. Also when coming with a little speed you don't hear the riders coming up.  Normally the sound of the wind, chain slap and suspension working blocks out any other sound ( especially the speed the Pivot rides  ;D) , where as going up hill you normally hear well in advance of a rider coming down.

M personal belief is that the downhill rider has the momentum and has normally worked his ass off to get to the top....I say let them have the right of way as it makes a lot more sense for the rider going slow to get out of the way.

Courtesy from both directions is needed.....

Offline Dregs

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Re: More trail etiquette topics
« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2012, 07:59:46 PM »
Hey guys,

While sometimes I think it would be nice to have right of way downhill I think it opens up a big can of worms. It's hard enough to get people to yield a little trail on the flat when passing. If DH riders had right of way suddenly it's open season on people riding up. It's easy to be an aggressive asshat when you have speed and momentum behind you. It'd be like changing the road rules to 'give way to the biggest and most aggressive drivers'. It's not hard to imaging Johnny Go Fast screaming 'get out of the f#%n way' at some poor schmo who decided to try climbing  his favourite DH training trail. More aggro between riders is the last thing we need.

Climbing up might be slower but on steeper climbs (probably not much at Lysty) starting a climb half way up is way harder than starting to roll down a hill. The other thing you loose perspective on when descending is the relative speed. If you slow from 45km/h to 20km/h to pass you feel like you have almost stopped (and you are braking hard) but the 7km/h climbing rider feels like you are still screaming toward them. If you just stop briefly and wait for the climber to pass you have more opportunity to pickup your speed again down the trail. Let's face it we are probably talking about 20 seconds or so in most cases.

Like you said common sense is the best bet (if it's easy and clear for the climber to give way, why not?) but I think the general rule is correct that downhill riders give way to climbers. Give way to climbing riders has been an IMBA rule for a long time (http://www.imba.com/about/rules-trail).

I think this highlights the need for more one way, descent oriented trails where you can crank it up and let it roll! I'm sure everyone agrees, let's build!

Dregs
« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 08:01:36 PM by Dregs »

Offline Martin

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Re: More trail etiquette topics
« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2012, 09:56:35 PM »


M personal belief is that the downhill rider has the momentum and has normally worked his ass off to get to the top....I say let them have the right of way as it makes a lot more sense for the rider going slow to get out of the way.


actually, you make a very pursuasive argurment. that's what i'll be pushing for in future - the person who's done more work today gets the right of way (i'll come out ahead against most of the race whippets by the time i'm half way round the ride - so i'll get ROW both up and down  ;D

Seriously - we put this (DH gets ROW) into the trail rules that Andy's compiling. just about everyone who posts on MTB forums wants DH to have right of way anyway, so clearly the riding public has spoken!! Not to mention, being the first trail centre in the country to make this explicit will put Lysterfield (and LDTR) ahead of the curve in recognising and meeting rider needs  8)
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Offline Alistair

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Re: More trail etiquette topics
« Reply #35 on: May 11, 2012, 10:16:21 PM »
Not to mention, being the first trail centre in the country to make this explicit will put Lysterfield (and LDTR) ahead of the curve in recognising and meeting rider needs  8)

This has the potential to be a headline cover story in the PFJ.

Offline Matt

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Re: More trail etiquette topics
« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2012, 10:40:34 PM »
I agree with it, but wouldn't put it in.  It will just cause more crashes with people barreling through.  We need everyone to be aware and always try and give way.  I think directional trails is the only good solution to flowing downhill.

Offline magnesium

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Re: More trail etiquette topics
« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2012, 11:11:02 PM »
                 I believe courtesy in both direction, cause let's face it  not everyone  riding out there is going to be educated on this topic unless directional sighniage was placed in, Even then a directional format of signage would have to be drilled & educated.
                      Heads up!               

Offline Trek Rider

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Re: More trail etiquette topics
« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2012, 12:38:58 PM »
After reading all of this thread again and having rode lysterfield three times in the last week ( complete lap of every trail in could find )  I have found most people yielding regardless of direction / uphill / downhill .

But more so in the later part of the evening's there seems to be more group rides taking place where people seem to be racing each other . For me just struggling to learn all the trails of the park if I loose 10 to 60 seconds stopping pulling over regardless if I am going uphill or downhill it's no big deal . I am somewhat confused of the correct wording to shout out , I have heard people shouting " bike " " rider  " and mostly " coming down " . Saying this regardless of gradient going uphill I always pull over as other people have stated you are more likely to hear someone coming toward's you downhill .

I cannot see the ruling of the downhill rider giving way being a logical one . You would have to be going maybe under 40ks to be able to heard anything . And what is the rule on right of way in the same direction? I had rode over 2/3's of the park on thursday afternoon and was coming from CGT to middle ? And I broke was starting off from the upper car park . Since I was coming uphill and he was coming downhill to where the trail joins at the start I slowed so he could get in front at the trail join . He seemed to being paying more attention to beating me to the trail first than looking forward and came to a screaming holt since the track was blocked with roo's  ( maybe he can replay it on the go pro strapped to his helmet )

Anyway once starting off again I was blocked by him on the switch backs and strangely the short uphill sections , I just let the guy go off on his mission recording his epic ride , listening to his iPod etc . 5 to 10 minutes later on the downhill I spotted the bloke the other side of some switchbacks , he must have been able see me closing at speed maybe 200metres away . On the straight narrow higher speed section I was closing at maybe up to 20ks difference and due to his ears being plugged he " I think " couldn't hear me . We came to a tighter section and there was a guy on the inside of the corner , he stopped coming uphill and the bloke on the mission in front of me just hit the anchor's , foot came down and stopped .

Like I said I was coming at a fare faster pace and had just got to the bloke I was following at a higher speed . Having riders at both sides of the track coming to a stop I passed them sliding around the corner .

Now when you have people

1. Stopping to let people coming downhill

And

2. Stopping to let people coming uphill

Should everybody use a rule like the US road rule for cross road intersections , whoever got there first gives way but applied to a corner , ie : if someone is in the corner they have way ?

Offline Brossie (Tim)

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Re: More trail etiquette topics
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2012, 03:48:44 PM »
Good comments here TR.

99% of the time, other riders are friendly and happy to give way, slow down and say hi. I have only come across a very few amount of riders that are hero's and don't feel the need to be friendly. Even when I rode the Youies, the DH crew were friendly.

Having only been riding MTB for 2 years, I rate it as one of the friendliest sports. Last year at the Garmin 24, some of Aust best riders were there, and all were very happy to say hi as they flew past me, and encourage me to 'keep going'. I even chatted to a few of them in the transition area. And at the Forrest 6 hour the other week was the same. Its a shame that a small minority don't appreciate how unique a sport that mountain biking is.

Its all about the choices we make on the trails. Trek, you could have given the ipod rider a serve and got all aggressive, but you chose to be patient with him. That's what our sport is all about.

I umm'ed and arr'ed for a year before deciding to go out on a Tuesday night social ride, cause I thought everyone would be 'hero' rider and wouldn't want a newbie slowing them down. The extreme opposite happened. I remember Numbnuts, Lard and Oli all looked out for me and encouraged my riding that first night. Before long, my fitness was up and have enjoyed the group social rides for nearly a year now.

The best form of education for new(er) riders, is to ride with other riders that know and respect the sport and the trails.

Strewth, that was deep. If this doesn't work, we can start installing carbon fibre bull bars.
Keep Rollin' Rollin' Rollin.

Offline Oliver

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Re: More trail etiquette topics
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2012, 06:31:37 PM »
Deep  very Deep  ;D

Offline Martin

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Re: More trail etiquette topics
« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2012, 08:02:20 PM »
I'll put up some posters in the philosophy department advertising Prof. Brossie's "introduction to social harmonisation in velocycular earth tearing pursuits"
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Offline jagec

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Re: More trail etiquette topics
« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2012, 09:51:39 PM »
I have to say written rules on the trails would be great, but then give way signs and speed limits creep in. A rule if thumb I think is, if someone is tearing along down hill let them have fun. If on coming stay left, that's it. No matter whether there are rules or not there will always be the occasional douche.  :)

Offline Alistair

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Re: More trail etiquette topics
« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2012, 09:26:15 AM »
We did discuss putting up a sign with the IMBA rules at one stage. The official answer is to give way to the person coming uphill. Personally I usually pull over for the person coming downhill for the reasons you state and think it is cool if other people do that for me, but its not something I expect to happen and I'm ready to stop if the person coming uphill keeps pedalling.

Offline Brossie (Tim)

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Re: More trail etiquette topics
« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2012, 09:50:30 AM »
I like the unofficial rule, that you slow down (in either direction) and say hi as you pass.
Keep Rollin' Rollin' Rollin.

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